Transcript
Pastor Brian Martin: Hey everyone, and welcome to the Calvary Callback, a podcast where we take a deeper dive into the weekly sermon at Calvary Evangelical Free Church in Rochester, Minnesota. I’m your host, Brian Martin, and I’m here today with Josh Laack, who preached a sermon titled Believe and Live, looking at 1 John 5: 1-5. Josh, good day to you, sir. How are you?
Josh Laack: I’m doing great, Brian. I’m really excited to do this with you.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, Josh was just saying this is his first podcast experience debut. Yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. It’s, uh, I gotta look back when, uh, we started, like our start date, because we got an anniversary kind of coming up here, I would think.
Josh Laack: Well, that’s kind of exciting.
Pastor Brian Martin: I don’t remember exactly when it was, but we should look into that.
Josh Laack: For sure.
Pastor Brian Martin: Anyway. Well, Josh, you started, uh, you know, introducing yourself, which, you know, is great for those who, who don’t get up there as often. And you mentioned that you’re, you’re part, of course, of, of our elder board. Um, so here’s my first question for you today. What is something you think people don’t understand about serving on the elder board?
Josh Laack: Oh, gosh. Um, you know, I think I noticed it all along. Um, but I think I didn’t expect the weight of, of what’s happening like in our church. Like I knew we would have to make decisions about what the church was going to be doing. I knew we’d have to make spiritual direction decisions and vision decisions and all of that stuff. Um, financial decisions, everything. But, but I find like, even just on a Sunday morning, like sitting in the sanctuary, I get distracted because I’m looking around and I’m like, my head is like, what, what can we be doing better for these people that God has called us to care for? Um, and it as the chair it took me, I mean, until kind of now to settle into the fact that like, it’s good that I have this weight and instead of it letting it be a distraction, like letting it be something that drives me toward, um, you know, thinking about and praying about, um, how to best serve, uh, Calvary and the people here.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. It’s the weight of responsibility, I guess, in that sense. Right?
Josh Laack: And my responsibility, you know, more with more, more authority and more comes more responsibility. I mean, you really have to, um, to be careful when you’re in a position that God’s called you to, that you are really doing it for his glory and for, for the best of the people you’ve been called to, to care for.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it’s one of those things, you know, and, and I think part of that too, one of the things I have shared with students before is like, hey, as your pastors is usually the way I say it, but I think it would be true of the elders too, like, um, whatever. But I’m like, I know this sounds weird, but like, we just love you. Like. And I know some of you don’t really know me very well or whatever, but like, because of this role we have, because of this responsibility we have. And of course, Scripture pastor elder is the same word, right? It’s the same office. Um, like I know we barely know you, but like, we love you. Like we just do. And, and there’s a weightiness to love in that sense.
Josh Laack: Yeah, absolutely.
Pastor Brian Martin: And it’s, it’s, it’s a joy, but it is weighty.
Josh Laack: Well, and it’s why I said, I mean, I have the joy and the honor of serving as your chair because it’s, I mean, it’s both. And there’s a weight.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s interesting stuff, but, um, it’s good. Good things are often hard.
Josh Laack: Yeah for sure. And I’ve loved, I’ve loved being on the board. I’ve loved serving Calvary. I’m excited about what God has for us next as we, you know, look at, you know, the land and some of the other things that we’ve, you know, been in the process of doing. Like I’m really excited to see what God has next for us.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. It’s an exciting season, exciting season. So let’s start here. Reflecting on the passage that you preached from and on the sermon too, um, verses four and five, both use this word overcome. Um, for everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And then later, who is it that overcomes the world, except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? So overcome can also mean sort of its linguistic um range can include the idea of conquer, which I think is interesting. So in what ways are believers conquerors of the world in that sense? So you touched on this some, but let’s tease that out a little bit more.
Josh Laack: Yeah, for sure. And I mean, like I, I love definitions of words. I like Greek, I like, I mean, I like diving into all of that, but I know it’s not always super helpful. Um, in a, in a Sunday morning sermon. I mean, some people just kind of zone out when you start being like, hey, this Greek word is this. And then, you know, you’re worried about your pronunciation and all that stuff. Um, I think especially in this case, I think both overcome and conquer are really good words that you could, you could almost use interchangeably because.
Pastor Brian Martin: They’re very close.
Josh Laack: Well, they’re close. And, and I think too, there’s, I mean, the nuance of this passage, we, we kind of think like, oh, I have overcome. And if you really read the passage and look at it and closely and think about it, what you come to understand, it’s actually Jesus and Jesus has overcome or conquered either way, the world. I mean Jesus, by his death on the cross, by his resurrection, by his willingness to go through that has overcome anything the world can throw at him. Like there’s nothing that the world can do that beats Jesus like he conquered. He’s the king. He. He wins. And because we’re in him, because of the relationship that I was talking about in the message, because we have surrendered our lives to him in faith, which is what John really focuses on in the middle of that, that little two verse section is, you know, the thing that has actually allowed you to overcome or conquer is not your like super powerful ability to fight. It’s, it’s your faith. And it’s not any faith, but, but faith in Christ.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. You know, that reminds me of recently, man, who was it I’m trying to remember? I was playing rock, paper scissors with a kid, you know, elementary kid or middle school kid or something, man, who did it, anyway and and we were doing the thing, and then all of a sudden he, like, was doing these weird things with his hands. I’m like, what did you just pull? What was the, you know, because you’ve probably seen like the Spock thing, you know, or whatever, that.
Josh Laack: Lizard, Spock.
Pastor Brian Martin: Lizard, Spock. Yeah, that whole thing too. But he actually did the sign language, which I do know for Jesus. And I was like, okay. He’s like, I win because Jesus. Yeah.
Josh Laack: I was like.
Pastor Brian Martin: All right.
Josh Laack: I’ll give it to you.
Pastor Brian Martin: Well argued.
Josh Laack: Yeah. There you go.
Pastor Brian Martin: Oh, that was pretty fun. That was pretty fun. But yeah. Right. It’s our this is where, you know, a lot of times I think when people think about faith, I think a lot of us initially almost come to faith as, you know, the joke, the tongue in cheek is like fire insurance. You know, like, I just, I want to avoid hell. So I’m going to choose Jesus, which isn’t illegitimate as long as you don’t stop there. You know, I would, I would argue, I mean, I think that’s an okay place to start as long as you keep going. But I think this is where like the difference between mercy and grace, right? Like, so mercy is that punishment removed that we deserve. And I think that’s where a lot of people start. Like, I want the removal of sin and the removal of the consequence of sin. But, but grace carries with it a deeper meaning of like, you know, and this is why we get so much language about being heirs of Christ and things like that, because it’s not just the punishment that gets removed. It’s the, it’s the, the riches that are given to us in Christ. Right. And so in, that’s, I think that theme is in here too, in that we are overcomers, right? For those who you know, everyone who is born of God is an overcomer because it’s not, it’s because of our association with him. And he gives us not just reduction in punishment, but he also gives us like everything that is him.
Josh Laack: Well, and I mean, I think that’s why like the first two verses and again in here, really focus on this, like this born again idea because we really, um, we have become a new member of God’s family. And you mentioned heirs. I think like, um, the thing that changes for us is the relational piece that we’ve moved from being a part of the world organization, um, and we’ve gone to relationally being part of the family of God. And being part of a family comes with some benefits, like there are things you inherit as a part of a family. And, and when you’re part of God’s family, what you inherit is having overcome the world, you inherit eternal life. You inherit the blessings of a father who, who loves his children. And so, like I think the family nature of this whole passage is really powerful because it really does show, um, how different life is when you are relationally part of the family of God than, than what you were when you were on your own.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s a beautiful sentiment. And I think it’s really important. Um, and you mentioned that too this idea of like, um, what can be missing sometimes is like the facts without the relationship and that that’s such a key piece. And I think, yeah, I think that’s, that’s a, that’s a point well made for sure. So to that point, actually, that’s a pretty good segue into my next question, which is you, you brought in the most famous verse ever. John 3.
Josh Laack: Everyone knows that.
Pastor Brian Martin: John 3:16, right? Yeah. Because people hold it up at football games and things.
Josh Laack: Yeah. And then they always stop at 16 and they never read the rest.
Pastor Brian Martin: They probably read 17 and 18. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, you know, obviously sort of the main theme there and, you know, there’s a reason it’s a famous verse. It’s because it’s a pretty good summary of the gospel. Um, right in there. Right. So, um, and, and sort of the overarching theme is this idea that, you know, belief is what saves, right? And so tease out the idea of belief a little bit. You, you pulled in James. I don’t, I don’t know if you actually quoted James, but, you know, the demons knew who he was, right, and shudder.
Josh Laack: For sure,Yeah.
Pastor Brian Martin: And yet don’t respond. So belief sometimes I think when we use the word belief, it’s just like head knowledge, right? When we use that sort of colloquially in, in language. So. I know that you know this, but just like tease it out for us. What kind of belief are we talking about here?
Josh Laack: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, um, I think it’s why this whole book of 1 John, um, and the guys who came before preaching about love really made it so clear that there is love that flows out of this kind of belief. And so I think the difference is you can have information about all kinds of stuff, but it doesn’t matter until it affects your life. Like I know, uh, how to get a six pack. I know exactly what to do to get a six pack.
Pastor Brian Martin: Six pack abs.
Josh Laack: I assume. Yeah, yeah for sure. Abs six pack for sure. Uh, no, no abs and like, and I like, I know the, I know the workout that I need to do. I have all of that information and I don’t have six pack abs. Sure. And so it’s like, um, when it comes to, um, knowledge versus belief in Christ, it’s, I don’t just know something. I know something that makes my life different. And so like…
Pastor Brian Martin: Knowledge that leads to action partially.
Josh Laack: Well, knowledge that leads to love. And this passage tells us that the love of God is action. And so that’s to me, like, why, like, if you have knowledge of who Christ is and you aren’t doing anything with it, I don’t think that immediately means that you’re not saved. But I do think that would be a time for you to ask the question, like, what am I doing with this? Is this is this real? Right? And so I think belief leads to growth, to change, to repentance, to, um, to a new life in Christ. And that isn’t in our own strength. I mean, even in the John 3 passage, Jesus is talking about being born again by the Holy Spirit. I mean, there’s, there’s a truth to it that we aren’t able to do this in our own strength, but there’s also a truth that we have to do it. Like we have to respond to, to what Jesus has done. And belief inspires response, and knowledge just is information.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, that’s a great point. That’s a great point. Well, and that makes me want to ask another question, which I think sometimes is a struggle to understand a little bit, in my opinion. What do you think is the relationship between obedience and good effort? And what I mean by that is like, I don’t feel like I see scripture that supports the idea that God is pleased with good effort. I think God is pleased with obedience, but maybe I could be argued out of that position.
Josh Laack: Well, I honestly think those can kind of go together. Like, I think so, like, I think of kids that go to school and they have different levels of ability. And so the result of their action might look different depending on what they’re able to do. But they could all be being obedient. And so I think for us, God knows the deepest layers of our hearts, like he knows is this person doing these things because they love me and they love others, or is that person doing it because they want to look good for me and for others? And I think there’s a difference there, a nuance there that really matters. And it’s why, like when I talked about my own journey in the sermon, I was talking about this point in my life where I had the knowledge of who God was, but I also wanted to keep living the way I was before. And so I, I thought I was hiding in the shadow, those, those bad things. And I thought that I was coming to church and I thought I was really demonstrating what it meant to be a Christian at church. I thought I was doing a really good job of making everybody around me think that I was a good guy and that I knew what God wanted. And it was all a facade. And the whole time God knew that. Like he knew I was not being obedient.
Josh Laack: Yeah, he knew I was, I was putting up a front. And so I really think what God is actually looking for us is not even necessarily results. I think he’s looking for a willingness to say, hey, because of what you’ve done, I’m going to do the best I can to respond in faith, um, to the things you’ve called me to do. Like I like the, the story of the talents. And God is just as pleased with the one who got, you know, the ten talents as he is with the one that that got the lesser amount. The only one he’s not pleased with is the one who did nothing with what God gave him. Like, and I think that’s just the reality for us. Like I look at, you know, other preachers who have come before me, who have way bigger audiences that they preach to, you know, auditoriums of thousands of people. And, and I’m like, wow, like they really are serving God so well. But that’s not what he’s called me to. He’s called me at this time to Calvary and to, to just the people that, that hear me at Calvary. And he’s going to be just as pleased with my obedience and my result here, as long as it’s done in faith as he is to somebody who preaches to 10,000 people.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. I think we get caught sometimes in like input versus output thinking. Mhm. You know, like, I can, I’m thinking of, you know, missionaries I know who are in tough sledding places, right? Who are faithfully serving, but they’re not seeing droves coming to the Lord. And I don’t think that’s necessarily failure. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, they’re being faithful. And I mean, what I’m thinking of right now, like you go to parts of Canada. That’s a hard place to share the gospel. People are kind of over Christianity and, you know, especially like in Quebec. And anyway.
Josh Laack: That’s a, that’s a pretty, uh, pretty Christian empty place.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. And, and, and very cynical toward Christianity. Although interestingly, my understanding is in that in, in the province of Quebec, that’s starting to change, partially because the people who were so jaded about corrupt religious institutions are all kind of dying off. So at this point, it’s sort of a blank slate. Anyway, that’s not neither here nor there, I suppose. But, um, yeah, we just have to remember, I think it’s not just about good effort, to go back to the question. It’s not just about good effort, but it is about faithfulness. And I think I think those are slightly different. But I do see the connection in that too.
Josh Laack: Well, I think I think there can be good effort that’s done in faithfulness and good effort that’s done for other reasons. And that’s like I put in a lot of effort to hide who I was from people at church when I was younger. Like I put in a lot of effort like that was. And now I want to put in that same amount of effort, but I want to do it out of faith in Christ and, you know, for a real relationship.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s reflect on that just a little bit. So I know some of your story. You’ve shared some of your story publicly too. So I don’t think I’m stepping out of line here by asking this question, but I think it would be fair to say that, you know, you had a certain sense, you know, in your former life is how I was going to say it. I don’t think that’s quite right.
Josh Laack: But, I mean, there’s some truth to that.
Pastor Brian Martin: There’s some truth to that where it was really works based. Right? It was about performance. And so, um, I know your wife and I know that she’s had a deep impact on you as all of our wives have on, on their husbands, of course, but speak to that specifically. What role has has Kate, your wife, played in your christlikeness and repentance from your sort of works based righteousness perspective that you previously were coming from.
Josh Laack: Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, you know, I think there’s something so profound about experiencing real relationship that inspires you to be better about being in relationship. And so like I had other relationships before my wife, like I dated and, um, thought I knew what relationship was, but it wasn’t until I really had to build my life with someone. Um, and my, my wife is brilliant. Like she’s so smart and like, I was used to winning, you know, intellectual conversations with people before I met my wife. And she, she just knows stuff and she thinks about things in such a way that, like, she won’t even come to the discussion with you unless she already knows that she knows the answer. And so like, like, yeah. It’s amazing. I love it too and inspires me to, to have to think even more deeply about, you know, the things that we talk about, um, which has really made me, um, dive in more on both our relationship side and on making sure that I’m, um, informed about what I’m talking about before I just say things. Right. And that was a weakness of mine. I used to, I used to be somebody who really wanted to be recognized as the guy who knew things. And that was part of the church thing that I did where I put on this front, like, I know things about Jesus and I know things about how to be at church. And I, you know, people are like, wow, Josh, you, you really know these things.
Josh Laack: Like, that’s so great. And it was pride and, and there’s nothing like getting your pride destroyed than running into somebody else who you say something to, and they’re like, that’s wrong. And you’re like, oh, maybe it is wrong. And so my wife has challenged me in very loving ways. She’s she’s been a great wife who really cares about, um, me growing as, as a, as a person and has helped me do that in so many ways. But, um, I think the biggest part of it is just having experienced relationship and experienced building relationship with somebody. And that has really helped me to understand what it means to build a relationship with Jesus. And I think that’s why the Bible uses marriage as an analogy for what we have with the church in Christ. And like it describes the kingdom that’s coming as like, we’re going to have this big giant marriage banquet, um, with Jesus as our bridegroom. I’m like, that’s so great for language. And if we don’t have the experience with a good marriage relationship, it’s really hard to understand. So I think my wife has done two things for me. She’s really challenged me to, to make sure I know what I’m talking about and that I understand it before I start telling people. And she has also really been a loving example of what real relationship is meant to be.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Yeah. It’s amazing. You know, and, uh, you know, praise God for good wife. And that’s so good. And I think, you know, it’s interesting as you were talking and sharing on that, I think my wife has done a lot of that for me too. But I’m also thinking about really sharpening conversations I’ve had with students over the years, too. And, and I’m bringing that up partially just to say like, amazing that this was your journey and praise God for a godly wife and all of those things. But to our single brothers and sisters out there in the church too, like this isn’t the only way to be sharpened this way. I think having, and you weren’t suggesting that, but I just I just felt compelled to say this, like having good conversations among believers and, and being that iron sharpens iron in whatever form that is, whether you’re married to that person or you’re friends with that person, or you just know them casually at church or whatever, and being willing to, because I think Midwest sensibilities, we don’t like to argue that often, but if we give each other permission to do that in the church, I think it helps us sharpen our, our arguments and our, and it’s not about winning the argument. It’s actually about thinking correctly.
Josh Laack: Absolutely. It’s one of the reasons why I really love the shepherding model that we’ve implemented here at Calvary. Like there’s really, if you’re willing to dive into it and take the time to invest in it, like being a part of a group of people that you can build real relationship with that are going to want to have biblical conversations with you, people that can sharpen you, that have come before you and are a little further ahead on the journey, can be for you, um, you know, an example to follow somebody who has wisdom you don’t yet have. And at the same time, there are people coming behind you that are, you know, just coming into their faith maybe, or, um, or who haven’t experienced some of the things you have. And I mean, that’s what Kate kind of did for me. But I think for people who are, you know, still single or who God has called to singleness, which there are people like that too. I think having a community, um, where you can still be in relationship is so important. And I love that we, we have that focus here at Calvary where we really want people to be in community, where you’re sharing meals and you’re sharing conversations and you are having those discussions about the Bible and about God and about what that means for your life.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing stuff. I still remember one of my favorite questions I’ve ever been asked was a seventh grader asked me once. He goes, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, are we sheep or are we shepherds. Like, which one are we? Because that metaphor confuses me. And I was like, that’s a real good question. We’re both like, absolutely. We’re supposed to be both as we’re.
Josh Laack: Working, working toward being both.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah. Which is, you know, just stuff like that. You just never know where good curiosity is going to bring you.
Josh Laack: Mhm.
Pastor Brian Martin: And it’s such a good thing, such a good thing. Um, there’s a phrase in here that feels to me like, yeah, this is a letter to the church. And what I mean is, um, in the passage, it’s almost this like aside for a moment. And I think it’s really interesting. It’s in verse three. So he’s talking about love and he’s talking about all these things. And it says, for this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And then and his commandments are not burdensome. Mhm. That just feels like this little aside where the writer of 1 John wants us to know, like, hey, by the way, his commands are not burdensome. Why do you think that’s in there? I mean, and we have to be careful about speculating on that. But in context, I guess maybe is a better way to say it. Why do we think that’s there?
Josh Laack: Well, I mean, I think it’s there for a couple of different reasons. Um, and I talked about briefly about the Jews in um, my sermon where they, the Israelites took the, the whole command of God that they received and they like, put it on their backs as like a burden to carry. And so I, I think there’s like a temptation among us, um, when we receive like this instruction to follow the commands of God to quick jump and say, okay, like I have to do all these things perfectly. I have to carry this. And it becomes this burden that we put on our backs. And I really think John is trying to suggest that this is relational behavior. Um, not a list of things to check off. And, you know, especially for some people like the idea of like, I just need to check off this list of things. And as soon as I’m done with it, then I can go back to, you know, the rest of what I want to do or whatever.
Josh Laack: And I think really, um, John is trying to stress this idea that, um, it’s just a relational response and that, that obeying God’s commands to the best of our ability, because none of us are perfect is, is not a burden. Um, because it’s not like this weight we have to carry. And I talked, I talked a bit about like having this backpack of things. I think so many of us carry like backpacks, like, oh man, I knew I was supposed to, you know, behave in this way and I didn’t. And now I’m a bad person. And I, you know, God’s going to hate me for this. And or other people are going to hate me. And I’m like, we carry that pack. And then instead of setting it down, then we find another command in scripture or another thing we think we should be doing. And we’re like, oh, now I’m not doing this one either. And then the backpack gets heavier and it gets heavier. And, you know, I referenced 1 John 2 because I love that because, you know, the command to us really is don’t sin. Like John, John is saying to the believers, do not sin. Like that’s really what we’re supposed to do. And the, the next thing we would expect is, and if you sin like it’s over for you, there’s no more, like Jesus will forgive you one time and that’s it. And that’s not what John says he’s like, and if we do sin right, we have an advocate, right? And so I, like I described it in the sermon as like, we have the ability to practice the commands of God within the safety net of Christ’s forgiveness, meaning that we don’t have to be perfect.
Josh Laack: In fact, we we can’t be perfect. In fact, we’re literally told in Scripture that, you know, our tongues are deceitful and our you know, we seek after wicked things like our human nature, the sinful nature within us is really bent toward the wrong choices. And so it’s a win when we when we find a command of God and we do it, you know, somewhat right. And, and so really, it’s in, in relationship, God is seeking what we were talking about before. He’s seeking genuine people who really want to live life his way and are willing to keep trying when they fail. And that’s why we have an advocate in Christ, because he knows we’re going to fail and he wants us to keep trying. And so he’s like, hey, don’t sin. If you do sin, Jesus is here and he’s got you. And next time when you find this same situation, like try again. And I mean, I love that picture that I gave about, you know, the conversations with my dad because I really think my dad and I exemplified that picture because I failed. And then I came back to my dad and he’s like, oh yeah, go ahead and try again.
Pastor Brian Martin: Like, yeah.
Josh Laack: And not just once, but multiple times. And I’m like, oh, like, this is this is what God is trying to do with us.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s amazing. And a great testament to who he is. Um, we’ve done some of that, like with our kids at times when we’ve said, do you want to try that again?
Josh Laack: Yes. Yep.
Pastor Brian Martin: You know, and, and just, all right, we’re just gonna forget that first one when you sassed back or when you, you know. Yep. And it’s like, do you want to try that again?
Josh Laack: I do that with my wife too, actually. Like we have this thing where like, one of us will come in and say something, usually me because, um, sometimes I open my mouth before I’ve thought it completely through and I will say something to her and then I’ll be like watching her face as I say it. And I’m like, wait, I’m gonna, I’m gonna say that again. Can we, can we start over? I’d like to, I’d like to say that again.
Pastor Brian Martin: That’s good.
Josh Laack: So yeah, she’s usually pretty good to be like, yeah, you could, you could do that over.
Pastor Brian Martin: Well, you don’t know what you think about something until you talk about it though.
Josh Laack: That’s that could be true.
Pastor Brian Martin: I mean, that’s not everybody. But I think that’s you know, it’s certainly me.
Josh Laack: Yeah. For sure. Well, I do, I do tend to need to like really stop and force myself to think things through. Um, actually being an elder has been great practice for that because, um, there’s a lot of times people come up and just ask you a question and you need to be able to not necessarily immediately have the answer but you need to be able to say something back to them like, hey, I’m going to, I’m going to think about this or I’m going to whatever. And my earlier tendency was, I’m going to, I have to have an answer. I’m an elder. And now I really come to understand like, oh, no, I need, I need a minute. Like, I’m going to go think about this. Or, you know, maybe I do have an answer I’m willing to give.
Pastor Brian Martin: It depends on what it is.
Josh Laack: Right. But, but if I don’t, I like, hey, I’m going to need a minute here.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s a great practice, I think for sure. Hmm. Well, let’s, let’s end with this. Um, you said in your sermon, living God’s way is just better for our lives. I agree with you, obviously. Um, and I think I want to attach that a little bit to a concept I’ve heard that I think has some pros and cons to it, but I think it has a lot of pros to it, which is I’ve heard some pastors sort of argue like it’s okay in one way to behave like a Christian before believing, because it’s going to be good for your life. And I agree with that. I think there’s some pitfalls ultimately with that thinking, but I think on its face, I think that’s a true idea. So let’s say you were conversing with a skeptic or someone who maybe even was a believer, but is skeptical about the fullness of life they could have in Christ, right, by being fully obedient. In what ways is living God’s way just better for our lives? Like make the case.
Josh Laack: Yeah. Um, so I think there’s really kind of a couple ways that we should think about this. Um, one is if, if you are an inventor and you invent a brand new machine, you are going to know the best way for that machine to be used. Like somebody else can look at it, and they can maybe even read an instruction manual and they might get close, but they’re not going to come up with exactly what you as the inventor intended perfectly. And I, we are God’s creation. Like he designed us from the cell up, you know, from the concept up even. And so he’s going to know best for us than I mean, better than we are for ourselves. And so I think there’s a, there’s a piece in which God is loving, all loving, and he’s going to want what’s best for us. And so the things that he tells us to do, whether we understand them or not in any given context, are just going to be the best things for us. And to be honest, he’s so much smarter than I am that, you know, there are things that I just don’t, I don’t yet understand. And then I, I do them like in relationship with him or with others.
Josh Laack: And I’m, oh, I feel peace here. Or like, you know, we, we may not immediately agree with, with something God has done or understand it, but a part of just like knowing who God is and who he what he who he is for us as our creator means that I just trust that what he has for me is better. Um, and then I just think experientially, like how I’ve lived my life before. Um, and the results of that and the weight on my back, you know, of the decisions I was making in my own strength and stuff. Um, just shows me like by my experience that, that living life, God’s way is more peaceful, it’s more joyful, I have less worry, I have less fear. I, you know, and I, there’s, there’s just like a comfort in knowing that somebody smarter and more powerful than me has looked into the world and said, hey, here’s here’s a better way to do this. And so that’s really kind of what I mean about a better way to live now. Yeah. And it really translates into, um, what it is that we’re aiming toward. And that is like if someone said to you, if you do these ten things for the rest of your life, um, when you retire, you’re going to have as much money as you possibly need for the, for the rest of your retirement.
Josh Laack: And like, you may not understand those ten things, but if you trust the person who gave you that information, you’re going to be okay. This is better. It’s better for me to do these ten things than not do these ten things. And when you do it, and then you have the result that they promise like you’re going to be glad you did it that way. And so God has said to us, hey, my promise for you is eternal life. And you know, right now I’m asking you to live my way to store up treasures in heaven to, to, to have rewards waiting for you in eternity. And like the good God is like, here’s my promise to you. Like if you live my way, then sure, it’s going to be better for you now. But this blip of a life is going to be gone, and then we’re going to have eternity to understand why God was actually right, why living his way now is better, you know, not just now, but but for eternity.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we can see some of the immediate results of that too. Of course. You know, I mean, there are certain ways we can see how life is better when we obey. And, you know, I mean, God’s plan is just better than our plan.
Josh Laack: It is. And I love there’s a passage in the Old Testament says that God laughs at our plans. Yeah. It’s like, like I, I had all of these plans for my life when I was younger, and I knew exactly what the woman I was going to marry looked like. I had, you know, the top ten list of things like these things. And I just like, look back and I’m like, well, no wonder God laughed at my plan. I laugh at my plan. Now that was a stupid plan. Like like like. But I have more information now, right? And I know that God has way more information than I do. He has all wisdom. Yeah. And so I’m just gonna, I’m gonna trust him that that it’s good for me now and it’s good for me forever.
Pastor Brian Martin: God is smarter than me. Absolutely, absolutely. That’s a very comforting thought, frankly. Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. Well, Josh, thanks for your time here and thanks for for sharing with us on Sunday.
Josh Laack: Yeah, absolutely. Happy to do it.
Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Awesome. And to all of you, thanks for joining us on the Calvary Callback. We hope this time was an encouragement to you and whether you are a part of our Calvary family, or if you’re listening from somewhere else in the world, we invite you to join us in our mission to pursue passion for Christ and compassion for people. For Josh Laack, I’m Brian Martin. We’ll catch you next time on the Callback.
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