Pastor Brian: Hey everyone, welcome to the Calvary Callback, a podcast where we take a deeper dive into the weekly sermon at Calvary Evangelical Free Church in Rochester, Minnesota. I’m your host, Brian Martin. I’m here today again with Kyle Bushre, who preached a sermon titled Abide, looking at 1 John 2: 26-27. Just a two verse passage today.

Pastor Kyle: You know how I like to do it. I like to just take my time working through these books. Yeah, yeah. Two verses.

Pastor Brian: We’re abiding in the text.

Pastor Kyle: That’s right. We remain almost unmoved, almost unmoved in the text. You think, how far did we get today? Not far. Yeah.

Pastor Brian: If we’re supposed to walk in the light, maybe we should start walking a little faster.

Pastor Kyle: There should be some movement on this thing. Yeah. No, I that’s that’s probably, uh, if I err on the side, it’s probably going too slow through a book. But I felt like when I, when I read these two verses, I thought these two verses, we got to dwell here a little bit. First of all, we’re getting the anointing in there. So I just, we, we can’t, we can’t go too fast for this.

Pastor Brian: So, you know, it’s funny, I, we were away, you know, on vacation a couple weeks ago and I was able to attend another Free church, which was really great. That’s great. And, uh, the pastor did a great job, but he preached through an entire chapter of 1 Peter.

Pastor Kyle: Of first Peter?

Pastor Brian: Oh, yeah. He was, he was doing a thing. He was doing a thing where it was, it was more of like an overview. Okay, that was the point. And it was funny where I was like, you know, I’ve gotten so used to our pacing that it was it was sort of like, wow, we are just blazing through this, you know? And, you know, to his credit, he wasn’t trying to, he was clearly letting people know, like, I’m not trying to cover everything. I’m making a point here. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with that. I just um, it was just funny that I hadn’t realized how used to our pacing I have become.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah, yeah. There’s a, there’s a way, and it’s interesting because I tend to, to sort of err on the side of sometimes maybe going a little too slowly through something, especially when, uh, you know, it would be better to zoom out a little bit more and see it, uh, see more of it put together. So it’s just a style preference, I think. But, uh, I’ve always, and it’s probably uniquely me in that I like to dig, I like to dig into, I like to, I like to look at that grammar. I like to look at the, the way the sentence is structured and see, um, you know, how the point is being made. And, and so yeah, there’s lots of ways of doing it.

Pastor Brian: I feel like… Did you bring this up in a sermon not long ago? It’s a concept I’ve thought about for a while. Fractals. Didn’t you bring that up as a…

Pastor Kyle: Fractals. No I dont think so.

Pastor Brian: It might have been somebody else. Um, so fractals is like a geometry term, but it’s like… The easiest way to explain it is if you look at a tree from a distance and you see the whole tree, right, it looks like one thing. And then you look at like a branch and it looks kind of the same actually like the, the shape and style. And then you look at a twig and it’s kind of the same, right? It’s this idea that it’s the same no matter how close or far away you’re looking at it. Yeah. And I think about that with Scripture. Like there’s a way, you know, because while digging into these shorter passages is super important and good because we’re, we’re drawing out meaning of words and we’re really trying to connect context and all these things. You would also agree, I’m sure that like meta narrative is really important. Absolutely. We have to see, we have to see this verse and this word and this phrase, but we also have to look at the whole letter in this context and how that fits into the whole counsel of Scripture. Like it’s all those things, which is such an interesting thought about studying scripture.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah. A few years ago, I got into this thing where, uh, you know, there’s the read through the Bible in the year plans that are out there, plenty of those. But I found a plan that was more like read through the Bible in about three months.

Pastor Brian: Interesting. Yeah.

Pastor Kyle: And, uh, it was, it’s fascinating. If you read at that pace, you see things in the meta narrative, the overall structure of the Bible that you don’t see when you just have your verse of the day, or even if you’re just reading a chapter a day or something like that, which is a fantastic pace. It’s totally fine to read that way. Um, reading both of those ways, but when you read lots of scripture, you’re not going to be able to take in all the details. You’re just going to get the overview. And from that perspective, you also see what God is doing over a longer period of time in some cases. Uh, what God is doing with doctrines that you see, themes that you wouldn’t otherwise see, things that develop, that you wouldn’t see because you’re not, you’re not taking so many pauses in the text. So yeah, lots of ways of studying the Bible and preaching the Bible.

Pastor Brian: Right, absolutely. Yeah. And we probably need to cross train in all of them to a degree, right?  So good. Well, let’s look at, um, this week a little bit.  So you made an assertion that I certainly agree with, but I’d love you to expand on it a little bit. You were talking about this, uh, this video you had seen of the woman who wanted to add the third Testament and all that.  And you made this claim. You said that the Bible isn’t… err that she was making the claim… Sorry, not you.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah not me.

Pastor Brian: She was making the claim that the Bible is just dated words in need of an update.

Pastor Kyle: Yes.

Pastor Brian: Why isn’t that true? Like what…why would… I mean, I don’t agree with that. You don’t agree with that? Why not? What evidence can we put forward and say, No, This matters for today.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah. Well, it depends on what you think Scripture is. Right. If the nature of Scripture is that it’s God breathed words through the prophets and the apostles intended for the instruction of the church for all time, as it’s the message of the gospel spreads across the globe, then it would have to be for the church today.  God’s truth wouldn’t change because God is unchanging in his character and also in his message, right? So if you think that that’s what the Bible is, then it absolutely would be for today. There would be no, um, invalidation of what God has said. That’s timeless. Now, it was it was said in a culture, in a language that needs to be understood and in uh, so we need to know the historical context. We need to understand the Greek, the Hebrew, the Aramaic, and then put that into, in our case, English words that we can understand. And, and I think some, uh, some Bible translations, uh, which are more on the thought for thought or the paraphrase end of the spectrum of translations do a pretty good job of putting that using language for today to get the same ideas, uh, to people who need, uh, the words explained a little bit more clearly to them.  And so that they can grasp it in our 21st century mind. Um, so there’s nothing wrong with doing that. That’s what we, we should be doing so that we can understand what God has said. But it’d be like saying… I guess I’ll try to use an illustration here. Um, it’d be like saying, um, you know, my wedding certificate, my marriage certificate is now over 25 years old. Um, it’s dated in that sense, right?

Pastor Brian: Right.

Pastor Kyle: But did anything along the way invalidate what it says? No. It is still very much true and in force today. And nothing, because nothing has changed about what was done then 25 years ago. Same would be true of the covenant that God has made with us. Uh, and Jesus died on the cross for all of his people throughout all of time, right? It’s for you and your children and for those who are far off, all the people that God will call to himself. So, uh, it is not dated words. A dated word would be something that doesn’t apply to today. There’s no reason to think that the Bible would not apply today if it’s God’s spoken word to us. If you think it’s something less, then you get to play fast and loose with it and do whatever you want with it. It doesn’t change what it is, but it’s what you’re doing with it. And that’s what we would we would agree. Can’t do that.

Pastor Brian: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think whether people consciously do it or not, I think that’s so often the motivation is that they want to manipulate it to say what they want. And, and I don’t think people often think about how when you do that, you’re, you’re not just changing, you know, the meaning or the interpretation. You’re changing the authority structure, right? If you’re saying my, for example, if you’re saying my sense of morality is superior to that, that is laid out in the Scripture, therefore I’m, you know, I mean, that’s ultimately what you’re doing is you’re saying, well, I know better than John, the writer of this letter. You know, it’s just so… Yeah.

Pastor Kyle: My New Testament professor, Don Carson, D.A. Carson, uh, would call that the deGoding of God. It is the pulling away from God, his Godness and giving it to yourself so that you now are the one who’s in control. You’re the captain of your own soul, as it were.

Pastor Brian: Which is basically the definition of idolatry. Which is…That’s all sin is idolatry, right?  So that’s just one, you know, nasty version of it I suppose, but…

Pastor Kyle: Absolutely.

Pastor Brian: So, um, related to that then, you talked about some preconceived notions that people bring to a text because, you know, obviously when we’re studying scripture, we have to study it primarily and first, but we have to be aware of our own preconceived notions, our own assumptions, all of those kinds of things. We could name a lot of negative ones, some that you mentioned this, this woman, uh, you know, had that were just silly. Yeah. But what are some healthy, good, helpful, preconceived notions about scripture that help us to read it well? Like, what are some… And preconceived notions when we say that sometimes it only carries a negative connotation. I don’t think it should.  What are some lenses, you know, probably that scripture reveals to us through which we should be reading scripture well?

Pastor Kyle: Sure. So, yes, the first one that jumps to mind is, of course, 2 Timothy 3:16. All Scripture is God breathed and useful for correction, right? And rebuking our souls and and training us and building us up for righteousness so that we’re equipped for every good work that God has for us. So if I’m approaching it first and foremost, as this is God speaking, yes, he spoke through the writing of others, but he moved them by his Spirit. I do believe that that was not a mechanical… There’s different, different, um, different theories of the, of inspiration that are out there. Some of them, some might say that God mechanically worked through an author who could, could not, his brain basically shut off, and he was just the tool by which God used to, to write down words. I don’t believe that’s true at all. I think Scripture is very clear that God used the personalities of his writers to shape the words that he, and to color the words that he wanted to, to say. But the preconceived notion, the faith statement, as it were, that this is what has happened, that the Bible has been inspired by the Holy Spirit who moved these guys to write these books is vital for understanding what it is I’m reading.  Um, am I just reading as, Am I just reading words about God? Or am I reading God’s word? Uh, I would say Scripture tells us again, this is circular, but all of these are circular. Right? Uh, Scripture tells us that this is God’s Word breathed out through human authors. If I believe that this is part of my faith statement, then I read the Bible differently. The other thing I think is important is to bring a healthy understanding of the inerrancy of Scripture.  And this would stem from the first. If God has spoken and God is truthful and tells no lies and is unchanging, then I would assume that he would tell me the truth and therefore his Bible would not contain errors in it. Now there have been scribal errors over time.

Pastor Brian: Different thing altogether.

Pastor Kyle: We could talk about higher and lower criticism of the Bible. That’s important. We should learn, people can learn about that. I guess I wouldn’t say should learn. You don’t necessarily need to know how all of that works. But if you want to know that’s available to you to know how we have the the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic text that we have today and how that was created through the work of critics, lower critics who put the Bible together. So yes, we have that kind of scribal error down the road, but in the autographs, we look at it and we say in the original, the writers who wrote these things wrote in a way that was, that did not contain error because they were writing God’s words. And that is an assumption I bring to Scripture. Now, does that mean that there aren’t tensions in the Bible? That where I look at it and go, well, on the surface, that seems like there may be some contradiction there or something that I need to sort out? Yes, but I haven’t found a genuine contradiction in the Bible in all my time reading it. I certainly found some things that I can’t quite square, but I can come up with ways they could be squared. I’m just not given all the information, say with the four Gospels, for instance, and the different perspectives that they have, probably using different eyewitness accounts to understand things. So, but my assumption, my preconceived notion, to answer your question, my preconceived notion is God has not lied to me. And then as I read the Bible…

Pastor Brian: Right.

Pastor Kyle: I say, I trust that what God is telling me is true and that I can learn from these apostles, that he truly did move through these apostles to write this New Testament that I’m reading, and I can trust them as well. So I think that those are the big ones.

Pastor Brian: Yeah, yeah.

Pastor Kyle: There’s probably some others.

Pastor Brian: Yeah, I’m sure there are. But I just think part of the biggest thing about that whole conversation is realizing we have them. We have preconceived notions and over time, through sanctification, like we’re wrong about something. You know, you even mentioned that in, you know, in your sermon, like sometimes we hear something, we go, oh, that doesn’t seem right. And then we’re like, oh, that is in there. You know, And, you know, I, I’ve done that so many times. I feel like I’m still doing that because to the fractal thing I mentioned earlier, I mean, there’s no end to the depth of scripture and our ability to understand more. And that’s not I mean, you can get, I think you can fall into another error where you, you just, you know, you’re always just trying to fill your head with more and more facts and information. Yeah, but, the, it’s different I think to say you can go deeper in understanding than just deeper in factual knowledge too because this isn’t a book we’re just supposed to read. It’s a book we’re supposed to receive as instruction.  Uh, not that it’s only instruction, but we’re supposed to do something with it.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah, we’re supposed to look into the mirror of the law and look into the mirror of the gospel and see ourselves plainly, and then go away and hopefully not forget what we look like, but be transformed by it. Right. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That’s what’s supposed to be happening.

Pastor Brian: That’s what it’s supposed to be. Yeah. So this passage also talks about deception, which I think is such an interesting concept all by itself. But, um, you know, because I think lying, lying and deceit are similar but slightly different. Um, you know, because I think often deceit, uh, is, is really about, you know, covering up or trying to mislead. You know, sometimes lying is just, you don’t want to get in trouble or whatever. But deceit is a different thing. It feels more nefarious to me in some ways. Um, they’re both sinful. So I guess in that way they’re equally depraved. But here’s the question. Um. What forms of deception from false teachers do you think we should have sort of our greatest guard up about because they’re common or because they’re particularly destructive? Like as we’re trying to assess, you know, the wolves around us, where should we be looking first? Where should we be most cautious?

Pastor Kyle: Wow, that’s a great question. There are a lot of influences on Christianity now that are trying to make it into something else. And I would say if for our culture right now, I think one of the, a number of different kinds of deceptions jumped to mind. But I would say anything, anyone who tries to take the Christian faith and make it a demographic or, uh, call it, um, are you a traditional person? Like we’re gonna, we’re going to just basically say, oh, Christianity is traditional, but we’re not traditional. We’re not conservative traditional in that sense. We’re more, we think we can have a kind of Christianity that’s more progressive, liberal, right? There’s people trying to put it into those political categories now. And what they’re basically, they’re, they’re not, they don’t want to talk about Christianity in terms of, um, new life, uh, transformed heart, uh, commitment to following Jesus and learning God’s word and growing, but more of a, this is sort of a label. The people who will just say it’s sort of a label and you’re sort of in a camp. Um.

Pastor Brian: You can join the club. That’s, that’s not how it works.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah. I think that that might, the lies that pertain to that sort of, uh, understanding of what Christianity is, are probably the most sinister right now because it’s easy, it’s easy then, to just dismiss it as not that important. It’s easy for people to just miss it as just not a very important part of my life. This is how we end up with Christian nominalism. People who will use the label Christian, but that it really doesn’t impact anything about them. I would say in American culture that might be the most difficult lie to overcome because it is easier, it is easier for me to talk to somebody about Jesus and to share the gospel with them if they have not put themselves in that in that camp, if they are not labeling themselves a Christian. If they see the difference between themselves and what Christianity actually is, that’s an easier conversation today than the person who has bought the lie that this can just be sort of the way I see myself, sort of the culture I come out of. Um, you know, we talk about being living in a post-Christian culture. I, to some degree, I agree with that although there’s growth actually in the Christian, like true Christianity is growing in our, from where it was. In our culture now people are coming back to the gospel, which is fantastic.

Pastor Kyle: But so in that sense, we’re not post-Christian, but I guess if in the sense of like, if you think of a wildfire that has burned its way through a forest and now has left behind a lot of dead growth, right, that’s just ashes, Um, in some sense, there are people that are, would still say they’re in that forest, but it’s burned through. So now it’s just Christianity is just sort of a, it’s a little part of my life. It’s, it’s, it’s something I consider myself. Um, but I use my own definition and it doesn’t really impact who I am or, you know, I like some of the things that Jesus said. So I’m a Christian, but I like to, I like Christmas and Easter and I like to, um, you know, I like to go to weddings and churches. Um, but that’s really the extent of it. It is harder for me to talk to that person about what Christianity really is because they’ve seen, they’ve they’ve already burned through.  They’re already on the other side of…

Pastor Brian: Because they’re like, I’m already in the club. But it’s not a club, you know. Yeah. It’s it’s difficult. You know, something I read recently that supports exactly what you’re saying is, um, it was an analysis of the political term. I want to be clear, not the religious term, the political term of white evangelicals.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah.

Pastor Brian: Which I do think is more of a political term than anything else. Sure. The greatest drop off in the ten year in the last ten years of church involvement, or like church attendance is in that group. Really? Yes. There’s been a huge, precipitous drop off of people who politically identify as white evangelicals who are leaving the church because, Right, because it’s a political term, not a religious one. It’s not it’s not actual true Christianity necessarily.  Um, those are very broad strokes, obviously, but I just thought that was a fascinating thing. These people who are sort of taking on this moniker of this loosely religious thing. But where is their actual conviction? What is their life actually saying? Yeah, it’s pretty interesting, but yeah. Um, okay, so you brought up what could be in some circles, a bit of an inflammatory topic, which is anointing.

Pastor Kyle: Can be.

Pastor Brian: I mean, I don’t think it’s particularly controversial here.

Pastor Kyle: Not at Calvary.

Pastor Brian: But when we’re, you know, when we’re engaging with brothers and sisters from other, you know, denominations or persuasions of Christianity. And I do I mean that seriously, brothers and sisters? Yeah.

Pastor Kyle: Um, no doubt for sure.

Pastor Brian: Um, you know, who, who use this term differently. So I just felt like I don’t have like a well crafted question here other than to say, let’s do a lap on anointing and remind us because you did touch on this, but I just feel like it bears repeating what is and is not anointing from a biblical perspective.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah. So and I want to echo what you said here about not wanting to, uh, step on brothers and sisters in Christ who have a different perspective on this and are looking at it in a different way and would define anointing differently. Um, I, because they truly are brothers and sisters in Christ. I’m not, I’m not questioning that at all.

Pastor Brian: I have like faces in my head of people I care about who would talk about this differently, right?

Pastor Kyle: But at the same time, I think it’s very, very important that we use Bible terms in Bible ways. I think it’s important that the meanings of, of what we’re talking about, because the,  the spiritual categories that we create should be biblical spiritual categories and not, uh, taking out of context of certain things and the creation of new biblical categories or new ways that God interacts with us that are not actually found in Scripture. Uh, so I, the anointing there in 1 John 2, it’s the only place that the word is used as a noun. It’s used three times there, two times right in verse 27, But, and once up in verse 10, I believe, and in all three cases it is referring to the spiritual anointing, the Holy Spirit anointing that we receive when we come to Christ. So at conversion, when the Holy Spirit indwells us, then we are said to be anointed with the Holy Spirit. Now that is not, I want to be quick to say we have plenty of anointing as a verb throughout all of the Bible, but as a noun, an anointing is only used three times there in that chapter.

Pastor Brian: Because anointed with oil, an testament practice.

Pastor Kyle: The kings get anointed with oil. We’re even told in the New Testament to anoint, to gather if someone is sick, gather with the elders and they’ll pray for you, anoint you with oil. We do that here at Calvary.

Pastor Brian: We do that here at Calvary.

Pastor Kyle: So we you know, so there is anointing is done to be set apart. That’s what anointing is for. Anytime you anoint it is to show that this person is set apart. You set apart a king by anointing him. You set apart a person who’s sick by anointing them. You’re basically, It’s just a special way of saying, God, please show special blessing to this one, right? When we are anointed by the Holy Spirit, that is what is happening at conversion. We are being anointed by the spirit. We are set apart into, out of the world and into God’s family. That’s what’s happening at our anointing and that’s what John is referring to. That anointing is what teaches us, uh, that we are different, that we, that we have all that we need. We have the gospel. We’ve been put into God’s family. There is no need for more teachers to come teach us some new fangled gospel, some new spiritual path, because we already have it. We have what God has done for us by giving us His Holy Spirit and saving us through Christ. So that’s the anointing. Uh, it gets pulled out of context and used to describe lots of other things in the church by certain certain wings of the evangelical community. Um, and, uh, and I would say wrongly.

Pastor Brian: Yeah. Um, when, when often they mean things like gifted. Yes. It’s anointed preaching. Do you just mean he’s good at it? You know, I mean, and if it’s any believer giving a sermon, shouldn’t it be anointed?  You know.

Pastor Kyle: Yes, Yeah. And honestly, even that use of it doesn’t bother me so much because, you know, if you just want to use a word, the problem is they’re using the word because they think it’s they think it’s a biblical category. I would just say, yes, gifted or God’s especially used that sermon in my life. Or God especially used that writer, that book, that speech, that teaching that I received in my life. Um, you know, I felt a special blessing from God when this or that thing happened in my life. That’s, that’s a fine way of speaking. And if that’s all someone means by anointing, I, I, you know, I’m not going to, it’s pretty far down the list of things I’m going to, you know, fight, fight over. I think where it gets dangerous is when people start talking about receiving the anointing. But what they really mean is a second filling of the Holy Spirit that in some circles, uh, they, they tie to a sign that you’ve actually been saved. And that you may not be saved if you haven’t received this special anointing. Then we’re not, now we’re messing with the gospel.  Now, now we’re, now we’re very close to misunderstanding what it means to be faithful to the Lord and to have salvation placed on us.  And, and really, what that can cause is a lot of anxiety for the person who loves and trusts in Jesus, but has not had some sort of a special event called an anointing or a second filling of the spirit or whatever it is. They don’t have that and they go, what about me? And then there’s this, there’s this pressure on them where there’s no pressure in Scripture for this thing to take place.

Pastor Brian: Yeah. So I almost feel like sometimes the implication too is like… I don’t know that anybody actually means it this way, but I feel like the way it sounds is that person has more Holy Spirit. Or something like that. You know, almost like, um, it always makes me think of like a magician, you know, in folklore that this one has more magic than that one. And so it can do more and has more power. And I just feel like none of it’s our power at all.  That’s where there’s danger in it. Because anything that might happen through someone’s prayer or through someone’s teaching or whatever, whatever gift they’re using, isn’t that person at all. It’s God in and through them.

Pastor Kyle: And that’s that’s Paul’s point in 1 Corinthians when he’s trying to correct them on their, their understanding of the gifts. He’s like, look, I speak in tongues more than all of you, but that’s not that’s not the point. You’re misunderstanding this. And then he goes in and tells them what real love looks like.  1 Corinthians 13, Right?  This is what it’s supposed to look like among you. Not this, you know, this pridefulness that you have over these, these gifts that God is doing among you. Not you at all. So I just want to I just think it’s important to pull back from any understanding of an anointing that is secondary, mostly to take the anxiety away from the the believer, young or old, mature or immature, who just hasn’t had that experience in their life and is thinking because teachers have told them this, you got to have this in order to have any kind of security in your faith.  I wanted to say to you, no, that’s not a, it’s not a biblical category the way it’s been described to you.  And a close look at at 1 John, where was the only place it talks about an anointing in that sense, I think bears it out that this is talking about your conversion. You have the Holy Spirit and because you do and because you understand the gospel, you don’t need anybody else coming to give you any special anything. You’ve got everything you need.

Pastor Brian: Yeah. Amen. Mm. Well, just to close our time here, I’ll say that, uh, my family, uh, really got a huge kick out of your pickle metaphor. Uh, like, just were very, uh, just thought it was great. So I actually made you something.

Pastor Kyle: Oh, you made me something?

Pastor Brian: I did. This is a little something for your bookshelf, perhaps, or something like that.

Pastor Kyle: Oh my goodness.

Pastor Brian: And, uh, so, you know, this is great radio.

Pastor Kyle: Um, yeah, yeah, the visuals.

Pastor Brian: But but here’s what it is, uh, listener. So, uh, there’s a little jar of smiling cartoon pickles in a jar and it says Calvary Evangelical Free Church trying to be pickled in the Holy Spirit since 1954.

Pastor Kyle: Yes.

Pastor Brian: Yeah. So, um.

Pastor Kyle: Be pickled in the spirit.

Pastor Brian: Be pickled in the spirit. I mean, I thought about making a t shirt, but that felt a little extra, you know, so I just went with this little graphic. But, um, anyway, but if you missed that listener, uh, well, most of this wouldn’t have made sense to you.

Pastor Kyle: Yeah right.

Pastor Brian: Anyway, so hopefully you already listened to the sermon, but but if you if you missed the pickle metaphor, it is worth a listen. Uh, so I have him back, but.

Pastor Kyle: I love it. Brian. Thank you.

Pastor Brian: Yeah.

Pastor Kyle: That’s so great.

Pastor Brian: Well, you know, and just to explain it, right, the idea of the Holy Spirit in us and us and the Holy Spirit, just like the brine, if I can repeat it back well, you know, but it’s a good. The brine is in the pickle and the pickle is in the brine and, and that’s…

Pastor Kyle: The brine is in the pickle because the pickle is in the brine and that there is no…

Pastor Brian: Saturation.

Pastor Kyle: There’s no part of the pickle or no part of the cucumber that survives without brine in it. So that’s where we, that’s where we’re at. That’s where we want to be. That’s that mutual abiding that John talks about.

Pastor Brian: And I’m going to give you a practical tip too, to close this out, which is, uh, did you know that if somebody tries to hand you a cucumber, which you clearly hate, uh, which is just funny to me. Do you know that if you, like, finish a jar of pickles, you can just put the cu

Pastor Kyle: Oh my goodness, I’d never even thought of this. They’re giving you brine. Oh man.

Pastor Brian: Life hack. Yeah because it’s not like it wears out. I mean you can do that multiple times.

Pastor Kyle: I’m never gonna buy a pickle again. Just get some brine.

Pastor Brian: Just get some cucumbers. Chop them up, throw them in there.

Pastor Kyle: Wow. I’m excited. I’m excited for what I’m gonna do later.

Pastor Brian: This podcast is changing lives. Oh. All right. Well, friends, we clearly need to end the podcast. Thanks for listening and for joining us here on the Calvary Callback. We hope this time was an encouragement to you. And whether you’re a part of our Calvary family or if you’re listening from somewhere else in the world, we invite you to join us in our mission to pursue passion for Christ and compassion for people. For Kyle Bushre, I’m Brian Martin, we’ll catch you next time on the Callback