[00:00:01] Pastor Brian Martin: Hey everyone, and welcome to the Calvary Callback, a podcast where we take a deeper dive into the weekly sermon at Calvary Evangelical Free Church here in Rochester, Minnesota. I’m your host, Brian Martin, and I’m here today with Kyle Bushre, who preached a sermon titled To Die Is Gain the Mentality of a missionary looking at Philippians 1:18 through verse 26 during our Missions week experience.

[00:00:25] Pastor Kyle Bushre: One of my favorite times of the year. Missions week.

[00:00:27] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. So, uh, I was, uh, away this weekend at the middle school retreat.

[00:00:33] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Oh, right. Were you were the speaker there? Right.

[00:00:34] Pastor Brian Martin: I was one of the, we had a bit of a relay race situation. We had four sessions and four speakers. I was one of four.

[00:00:42] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Nice.

[00:00:43] Pastor Brian Martin: I was second. Um, so that means I’m not the strongest runner, right?  Because you usually, you put your strongest runners at one and four.

[00:00:51] Pastor Kyle Bushre: That’s right.

So Um…

[00:00:52] Pastor Kyle Bushre: That’s right. That’s fine, you served your purpose.

[00:00:55] Pastor Brian Martin: It’s fine. Uh, yeah, we were talking about. We went through, Romans 12 together, living sacrifices and what that looks like. So that was, it was a great discussion. And I was in a seventh grade boys cabin discussion group. And I gotta say, our seventh grade boys got some things to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was impressed.

[00:01:16] Pastor Kyle Bushre: I’m not surprised though. I, when I…

[00:01:18] Pastor Brian Martin: Had some great kids.

[00:01:18] Pastor Kyle Bushre: When I look at our youth group and I spend time with them and I see how it’s structured and I see what they’re doing. We’re teaching Bible. These kids are learning theology. So they’re wrestling through some stuff. They’re not, this isn’t pizza and games all the time. This is disciple making, which is cool.

Calvary’s Missions Family Night

[00:01:35] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, absolutely. Well, so because I was away though, that meant I wasn’t able to go to the Saturday night missions family experience.

[00:01:43] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. The banquet. Sure.

[00:01:44] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Just for those who couldn’t make it and maybe as a little, um, promo for next year, you know, tell, tell the people what…

[00:01:50] Pastor Kyle Bushre: We’d would love to, we filled up the fellowship hall. We’d love to fill up the gym if we needed to because yeah, I would love to have as many people go to it as possible. The Missions Committee of our church does a great job of putting together a presentation. So the food is great, right? Because Tim’s involved. Pastor Tim’s involved. So the food is good.

[00:02:08] Pastor Brian Martin: Executive chef.

[00:02:09] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yes, exactly. That’s right. But, uh, and so it’s fun. And you get to, you know, talk to folks, but the presentation is what you’re there for. And they do a fantastic job of bringing in speakers, people we support who come in and share about what they’re doing or what they’re going to be doing, new support that we’re giving. Um, and this year. Whoo! Uh, I just, I leaned over to my wife at one point and I just said, it’s happening because of the shift toward and the embracing of unreached people groups as the focus of our church. And getting to hear from young couples, young singles on their passion to go and to reach people in dangerous places is inspiring. And you just don’t get that all the time. You know, and the truth is this, you don’t really get that online. You’re not going to be able to find people talking like this…

[00:03:10] Pastor Brian Martin: I suppose.

[00:03:10] Pastor Kyle Bushre: …Online because they’re going to places that it’s dangerous for them to go. So they don’t want that media out there. So we don’t have a recorded event. You’re going to have to come and, you know, do it the old fashioned way. Hear it straight from the source.

[00:03:22] Pastor Brian Martin: Irl, as the kids say in real life.

[00:03:24] Pastor Kyle Bushre: In real life. That’s right. You got to come in and, you know, you got to sit through a presentation where, you know, a nervous person stands up there and goes, this is not being recorded, right? And that happened like I think twice on Saturday, just to make sure so that we can talk real about what’s happening. And, um, it’s fascinating and it’s good. And it’s exactly what we should be doing with our missions resources, because the gospel needs to go to places where it hasn’t been yet. And, you know, we’re supporting other works as well. People who are working in other areas. And it’s cool to hear about what’s happening there as well. Yeah. Um, we don’t want to deny that work. We just want to focus really where the gospel needs to go. And so, uh, I just thought that Garth and his team did a fantastic job, um, putting together this presentation. Highly recommend that you come next year.

[00:04:17] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. And you’re right. Uh, I have a friend who has the saying, he says, when Christians act like Christians, it’s the most beautiful thing in the world. And I kind of love that, right? And it’s, um, like the kind of thing you’re talking about. It is inspiring, but it also should be like normal. It should be Bible normal that we’re willing to be the light wherever there’s darkness, you know, whatever that looks like.

[00:04:46] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Well, that’s why I wanted to preach on the mentality of a missionary.

[00:04:48] Pastor Brian Martin: That’s right.

[00:04:49] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Because if we change our minds, it changes everything else.

Why suffering for other people is worth it

[00:04:51] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Absolutely does. Absolutely does. Well, that’s a great lead in to kind of my first question here is we kind of get into it. And I almost, I pulled one of the things you said, I think I’m probably paraphrasing more than quoting here, but, um, and if I were to give it a like a name, I would call it like gospel math, right?

[00:05:07] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Okay.

[00:05:07] Pastor Brian Martin: So you said something like this, uh, what would be my four months in prison or even four years compared to the weight of eternity that they could spend with, with Jesus. Right? So, okay, so that’s like, that’s not normal math, right? That’s gospel math.

[00:05:21] Pastor Kyle Bushre: That’s right.

[00:05:22] Pastor Brian Martin: Um, so it’s a weird way to ask this, but why is my suffering worth it for other people?

[00:05:30] Pastor Kyle Bushre: That’s a great question. And I want to clarify, what you paraphrased there was actually a quote from Petr Jasek.

[00:05:37] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Sorry, I should have said that better.

[00:05:39] Pastor Kyle Bushre: So, Yeah. That was Peter describing his own mentality in prison. Uh, so say it again. Say it again.

[00:05:47] Pastor Brian Martin: So, the headline is why is my suffering worth it for other people? Like, why should I sacrifice so that other people can have something good?

[00:05:58] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Because everything that is temporary and finite is less than eternity. That everything we’ve been given by God is to be turned around for the sake of the kingdom of God. It’s to be turned around for eternity. So, and that includes my suffering, because my body is part of it. So my discomfort. Jesus is the one that said, you’re going to have trouble in this world. Take heart. I’ve overcome the world.

[00:06:29] Pastor Brian Martin: Mhm.

[00:06:30] Pastor Kyle Bushre: So he’s saying, look, I’m not going to keep you from trouble. I’m letting you know there will be trouble. That’s it. You’re going to have trouble if you follow Jesus and you sacrifice you’re going to have trouble. And I’m not just talking about trouble with your health later in life. I’m talking about the sacrifice. Jesus was talking about the sacrifice that it will take to do the mission’s work that we’re called to do will bring trouble into your life in some way. Heartache over the loss of somebody. Sacrifice of a different kind of life you could have had. Separation from family who you wave to as they leave to go serve the Lord and you don’t know if you’ll receive them back. I know families that sacrifice the, uh, the joy of being around their grandchildren because their children are serving in a place that’s not easy to access. You can’t just fly there every year, right? You know, and they don’t get to fly home every year. And so they  miss years of hanging out with their grandkids. That’s a sacrifice, for sure. And in some sense, it’s a suffering. And then that’s not even to count the different kinds of suffering that can happen while you’re there or what you will go through even here, standing up for Jesus and gospel values and sharing the gospel and what that will do to relationships and how you may be received here as a missionary.  But it is all worth it because it is all temporary.

[00:07:56] Pastor Kyle Bushre: It is all promised to us. The gospel is going to have to break through barriers, and it’s going to be hard on those who break through those barriers. You know, uh, Jesus showed us this when he took up his cross and died for us in our place. But his eternity is our eternity. And so knowing that, knowing that in light of eternity, uh, you know, as I said on Sunday, everything, all of this is just a prelude to an eternal worshipping of the Lord forever, where there is no more pain, no more death, no more sin, no more tears. That eternity, that’s what’s waiting for me. So everything that’s before that is of less value. And so I’m going to turn it around and sacrifice even if it cost me something. That’s why it’s worth it. You know, it’s exchanging temporary things that are broken and will not last for an eternal weight of glory that’s beyond all comparison, as Paul put it.

[00:08:56] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. And the reality is we all sacrifice for something. People will sacrifice for money, which really they probably do for the sake of leisure or entertainment or something like it. That’s why they want the money so that they can live the easy life or whatever. We sacrifice for our kids. Because for whatever reason, that’s baked into us in a different way, probably that we’re willing to give stuff up to make sure that their life is better than it could have been otherwise, or whatever. And so, you know, sacrificing for the gospel is part of that too. I mean, it’s the same thinking, but it’s the more redeemed version of it.

[00:09:39] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. I guess what I would say is what do you want to buy with the stuff you’ve been given by God. What do you want to buy? You want to buy comfort? That’s a lot, a lot of people want. Yeah, that’s what they want. They want a comfortable life. They want to enjoy their life. They want to, you know, YOLO.

[00:09:53] Pastor Brian Martin: Me too, right?

[00:09:53] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Right. Yeah. And there’s nothing wrong with enjoying life. And there’s nothing wrong with comfort. And there’s nothing wrong with safety. But if all your life is, if you spend everything in your life getting yourself comfort and safety, uh, you are misusing the resources God has given you, including your own body. That’s what Paul was talking about in this passage. You know, it’s fine if I die for having stood for Christ. That’s deliverance as well. And so I would ask you, I would ask anybody, okay, what do you want to buy?

[00:10:24] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah.

[00:10:25] Pastor Kyle Bushre: I want to buy Kingdom things. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on the earth. Colossians 3. That’s where my mind is set.

[00:10:33] Pastor Brian Martin: Eternal perspective.

[00:10:34] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yep.

[00:10:36] Pastor Brian Martin: Both about the things that matter and also about my own life has to be, if I think of myself as an eternal being, then I can make different kinds of choices. Because if I think now is all that I have that’s going to be a different sort of thing.

[00:10:52] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yep. Yep.

A theology of the body

[00:10:54] Pastor Brian Martin: So you touched on this a bit just now, but also in the sermon. And we’re not going to be able to build out a full sort of theology of the body, as it were.

[00:11:04] Pastor Kyle Bushre: No yeah.

[00:11:04] Pastor Brian Martin: But give us a little primer, maybe expand a little on what you shared. And I think one of the reasons I find this topic interesting is I feel like there are streams of thinking in, I guess, the circles I’ve run in in my life, you know, Paul talks about the flesh being bad. So there’s this…

[00:11:24] Pastor Kyle Bushre: It depends on how the word is used. That’s right.

[00:11:27] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. So what are some things when we’re thinking about faith and our body that we need to think about? So you talked about some of it this weekend. Maybe we can expand on that. But also what are some other things we need to think about, where faith and our physical body need to come together.

[00:11:41] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. I think the key to what comes from this passage and to, I don’t know, to expand on what I was talking about on Sunday is to recognize that while my body is mine, it is also a thing I steward. If we can get that understanding of the body into our mental, uh, our way of thinking about life. That I have a body, but I don’t have rights over it. My body is given to me by God to steward for his glory. My job is to use it in the proper way. Boy oh boy. If you see yourself that way. Um, and usually the way we say stuff like this is we say we are made in the image of God. We are given purpose and meaning in life because, well, the way God has done is we are creatures, right? But I almost want to move us into an ownership description. I think this can be a helpful way of looking at the body as well. And that is it is mine, but it is not my own and I don’t have every right over it. And if you start to do that, boy, I would love, you know what I’d love to do? I’d love to sit down with like six Mayo doctors and just describe and just…

[00:13:00] Pastor Brian Martin: You could probably find some. Yeah, I probably could get a few… And discuss my body is mine, but it is not. I don’t have every right over it. And how does that affect the medical community? Um, you know, is that the way most people see it? No, that’s not how they see it. Most people say, no, my body is mine. I get to do everything I want to it and use it in any way I want. Seek after every pleasure I want. Become anything I want. And the biblical worldview of the body says, no, no, no, no. You are given a body. You are an ensouled body. That’s what we are as humans. You’re an ensouled body. And that body is a gift to you. And you need to use it. Uh, maybe this is helpful. You need to use it in stewardship, the same way that you are to steward the mind God gave you.

[00:13:53] Pastor Brian Martin: Right

[00:13:53] Pastor Kyle Bushre: So your education, like I can wrap my brain, I can wrap my brain around the idea that…Your mind. Yeah. You see what I did there? …that I need to steward what I learn and how I can be transformed in the renewing of my mind. Great. Be transformed in the approach to your own body is how I might might phrase that. Because it is mine, but it’s not mine to do with whatever I like. And, uh, and this is so important for the mentality of a missionary because it answers the question, well, what if I do this thing and I end up suffering for it? What if I end up ruining my life for it. What if I die for it? You say, well, okay, that’s okay, because that’s where God led you when you were obedient to what God called you to do. This is what happened. And your obedience is worship and you’re worshiping God through your… It’s hard to say. The martyr worships God by dying for Jesus.

[00:14:56] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, that’s true, that’s true. And I would argue too, in a slightly different way of thinking, there isn’t really service you can do without your body. Like you’re either using, I think we’ve maybe touched on this before, but like you’re using your hands to build something or help somebody or move boxes for your friend or whatever. You’re using your voice to proclaim the gospel. We don’t think of voice as being part of the body. It certainly is. You know, um, you’re using your mind to think about things and pray for people and all those things. Right?

[00:15:27] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. And again it affects, as I listed off, I shot off a whole list of things that it affects. I mean, it affects health. Am I going to go to the gym today? I’m actually asking myself that. Am I going to go to the gym today? You know, it’s uh, I’m not sure where I’m at on it yet. Um, but…

[00:15:44] Pastor Brian Martin: You know what the answer should be.

[00:15:45] Pastor Kyle Bushre: I know what the answer should be. Uh, but yeah, there’s, I mean, there’s just so many aspects of my life that have to do with how I think about my body.  But what I want to say from this passage is don’t be afraid to sacrifice yourself for the sake of the kingdom of God, because you’re afraid of what might happen to you physically. Because God owns your body. God created you. He knows you. He superintends your entire path. If you are faithful and it leads to your death, you have glorified God in your death. That’s how I’d rather live my life than to live to myself. Have this sort of separate life, a separate way of thinking about me and my comfort and my safety, while also talking about the gospel but, always protective of myself. I don’t have to always be protective of myself.

[00:16:41] Pastor Brian Martin: Right mhm. Yeah. Interesting. So we talked about this idea as of suffering within that, right. Um, and you mentioned that, you know, using suffering for God’s glory shouldn’t be the thinking of just like elite Christians or whatever. It’s not just the varsity Christians, right? It’s the way we all need to think. Um, how does someone train to suffer well?

[00:17:10] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Ooh, that’s a good question.

[00:17:12] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. I mean, so we were talking about this in my shepherding community last night and just brought up this idea that you need to have a good perspective of the theology of suffering before you enter the suffering. The best time to build is not after the tragic thing happens.

[00:17:30] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yes, I say it all the time.

[00:17:32] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah it’s definitely before, right?  So, um. Yeah. How do you how do you train to do that?

[00:17:37] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Well, I mean, part of it is what we’re doing here as a church. Part of it is putting aside a missions week, right? And then hearing from missionaries going to dangerous places, and then also learning from the scriptures what a mentality of a missionary would look like so that we have that. You transform your mind first to prepare for it. You know, wasn’t it, Mike Tyson says, everybody’s got a plan until somebody hits you in the mouth.

[00:18:04] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah.

[00:18:04] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. So I have a feeling that there’s probably not a ton of preparation. Um, I mean, you can do it. You can keep preparing, you can keep thinking. But when suffering comes, that thing that you’ve built will help you. I don’t know that it completely makes up for, um, I don’t think it completely prepares you.

[00:18:27] Pastor Brian Martin: No.

[00:18:27] Pastor Kyle Bushre: And then you have to learn through the suffering.

[00:18:29] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah.

[00:18:30] Pastor Kyle Bushre: I think you have to learn through the suffering too. But the work you put in in advance will certainly help you through it, because building a way of thinking about, um, my finite life that will be filled with suffering and persecution, as compared to eternity is something we have to have in our back pockets when we, so that we’re willing to even take the step into a place where we could suffer. Right? It’s interesting, uh again, Petr Jasek, I was reading his story. And, one of the things I didn’t talk about yesterday, but one of the things that he did was he recalled, he remembered laughing with his team when they were preparing, uh, to go into these dangerous places back when, you know, before he was the regional director for Voice of the Martyrs. He was preparing just like we’re talking about now, to go to a place that would be dangerous. And he remembers laughing with his team like, yeah, we better learn this stuff, could happen to us. Haha, probably never will happen to us. And then it happened to him.

[00:19:34] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah.

[00:19:34] Pastor Kyle Bushre: And he’s like, oh, this is happening now. Oh, this is what we were talking about. And thankfully he had thought it through, right? So then he entered into it. Um, and, but God, you know, gave him a vision beforehand of that door and gave him the, you know, prepared him by giving him even in that moment a sense of God’s presence. So you’re never going to be able to fully prepare beforehand. But if you do prepare beforehand, your mind, your heart through prayer, you prepare the people around you, you talk with them about what could happen, you, if you can, get the blessing of your family to go, these sorts of things, these can be real, helpful things that you have in your back pocket so that when suffering hits, it’s mitigated some. And you’re at least mentally prepared, and you know the right things to say, even if you’re not, and to think, even if you’re not feeling that way.

[00:20:28] Pastor Brian Martin: Right.

[00:20:29] Pastor Kyle Bushre: You know, you can say, like David said in the Psalms, why are you downcast, O my soul? You can speak to yourself and go, I know truth that should overcome this feeling that I’m having right now. Um, but if you don’t prepare, you won’t have that. So, but I think it’s impossible to be 100% prepared.

[00:20:49] Pastor Brian Martin: I was pondering whether relational risk might be a good preparation for situational risk.

[00:20:57] Pastor Kyle Bushre: How so?

[00:20:58] Pastor Brian Martin: Like. You know, it’s scary to share the gospel with a coworker or with a classmate. And there’s a cost there. But it’s a social cost, which is not a safety cost. You know, our willingness to be bold in those situations maybe would be helpful if the stakes get elevated. Right. You know, I think that sometimes with, um, I wonder if sports have that function sometimes for our kids or, you know, just people that it’s almost this, it’s this false risk. You know, there’s not really stakes. It feels like emotional stakes or whatever in the moment. But is that actually, is that one of the reasons we really like sports? And we probably like them for some bad reasons. But is a good reason we like sports that it helps train us to take on the stress of the moment and fast decision making and those kinds of things? And does that do a similar thing?

[00:21:57] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah, I think so. I do think if someone says, I feel called to go to, uh, overseas to do missions work in a dangerous place, right, they wouldn’t even call it missions work. They wouldn’t use the M word. They would say just work in a dangerous place like that. I would probably say to them, well, tell me about your evangelism now. Tell me about the ways that you interact with the people around you now. What kind of salt and light are you in this place? And if the answer is, oh, I don’t really share the gospel here, why do you think you want to share the gospel there or think you’ll be prepared and ready to do that?

[00:22:34] Pastor Brian Martin: Great point.

[00:22:35] Pastor Kyle Bushre: So yeah, no, I think you’re on to something there with the relational risk, uh, live for Jesus everywhere. And it does seem like, uh, going to the front lines like we’re talking about, like I was talking about yesterday um, is, probably a promotional type of situation that God would have for you where you’ve been faithful with little and now he’s going to give you more. That’s the beauty of some of these really good missions organization. They’re really good at, at sort of, um, determining that, asking good questions and determining whether a person is ready to go. And that’s part of it.

[00:23:13] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah, yeah. And I can think of people around here who are serving in all kinds of ways that would be examples of what you’re talking about too. People who are doing prison ministry, people who are doing ministry in nursing homes, you know, some of those places that how do I say it, don’t give a lot back, necessarily, that it’s a lot of pouring out. I mean, if you’re looking for some of those opportunities, we could connect you with people who are doing them.

[00:23:38] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Absolutely.

[00:23:39] Pastor Brian Martin: And there are needs in our city too. And I don’t think anything we were talking about on Sunday is meant to gloss over those things.

[00:23:46] Pastor Kyle Bushre: No, not at all.

[00:23:47] Pastor Brian Martin: Very real opportunities as well.

[00:23:49] Pastor Kyle Bushre: As I often say, and lots of us often say, we’re the missionaries to Rochester. We’ve been sent here. This is where God has put us to be salt and light. So absolutely, that’s where we’re called. Yeah.

The concept of “senders” and “goers”

[00:24:01] Pastor Brian Martin: Well, to that point, talk to me a little about your personal, you know, whatever that means philosophy of missions a little bit. So you talked about the 2238 people groups who are considered unengaged. And I’ve heard a lot of talk, i feel like, over the years about the idea of sort of senders versus goers. How do you feel about that as a concept? Is that…

[00:24:25] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Oh, I think it’s right. Yeah. I mean, I’ve heard it echoed so many times. And if you look at Scripture, absolutely, senders and goers. You need to be a goer sender. I heard John Piper say there’s only three things you can be. You can go, you can send, or you can disobey.

[00:24:39] Pastor Brian Martin: Ooh.

[00:24:39] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Ooh. That’s really what he’s like. Yeah. He’s so strong on that point. And I think he’s right when I look at scripture. If we’re all part of the mission, okay, think of any team that you’ve ever been part of. Uh, I hearken back to the days of the group project in high school.

[00:24:58] Pastor Brian Martin: The group project.

[00:24:59] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Right. What do you got?

[00:25:01] Pastor Brian Martin: You’re making me sweaty already.

[00:25:02] Pastor Kyle Bushre: I know, the group project. Right. So you’ve got the person who’s doing all the work, and you got the people that are just like, hey, could you do all the work and then we’ll all put our names on this, right? There is no sense in which the mission of the church should be, hey, could you do the work and we’ll just put our names on this? no no no no no. We’re all part of it. We all have a role to play. And some of us will go, and more of us will send. And that’s the truth. And you know, when I say 22,000 people could make up teams of 100 that would reach those 2238 people groups, I mean, that’s just math, right? You talk about more gospel math. That’s just easy math. Uh, that’s a tiny 0.0275% of the evangelical world involved in going. So the rest would have to send. The rest would have to get behind that in some way. And the truth is, we could put far more than 100 people on every unreached people group, unengaged people group. Right. And places that are unreached also need to go. There’s a definition there. It’s like an unreached people group is under 2% Evangelical Christian but there are missionaries there. There are teams on the ground, that sort of thing.

[00:26:14] Pastor Brian Martin: Under 2%. I feel like maybe an outdated, I heard under 4%. But maybe that’s older. Whatever. It depends on who’s doing the survey.

[00:26:23] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. I think Joshua Project puts it under two but it doesn’t matter. I mean we’re talking about very small numbers of Christians in these places. Right. But the real difference is not really the percentage. The real difference is are there missionaries there? Are the people who love Jesus in that culture? Have they raised funds to go to, you know, do they have scripture in their, uh, in their language so that they can even have access to the gospel? These sorts of, um, these are the designations that really matter for those purposes. So, um, yeah, I really do. Uh, my thinking is I believe Jesus, when he says the gospel will go to all the world and then the end will come. This ties into my eschatology.

[00:27:07] Pastor Brian Martin: Sure.

[00:27:08] Pastor Kyle Bushre: So I’m not big on the exact order of things when Jesus returns, in the way that some people are really into that. I’m really into the mission behind what Jesus said will bring about the end; his return. And we’re not told to figure out the date. We’re told to figure out the plan, the strategy to go, and by the spirit enabling us to send our resources to people who don’t yet know Jesus. And that’s my passion. It’s been my passion. I was a missions pastor for five and a half years earlier in my ministry, in my life as a follower of Jesus and really developed my missions passions in that role and earlier. Church planting is another passion. Uh, disciple making. So I want to see us as a church, focus on these places where the gospel needs to go. I would love, you know what I’d love to do at some point. I don’t know, we’ll see. I don’t know if this will happen. I’d love for us as a church someday to adopt an unengaged people group.

[00:28:15] Pastor Brian Martin: Interesting.

[00:28:15] Pastor Kyle Bushre: And put together the resources necessary to reach them so that they go from unengaged to unreached, I guess would be the next step up. And in a sense, hopefully, God willing, reached. There would be whatever percentage of Christians that are there, but that would take a lot of work, a lot of resources to do something like that. But it’s been done. Local churches do this. So I don’t know. We’ll see. We’ll see where, how God leads us.

[00:28:40] Pastor Brian Martin: So let’s say somebody is feeling this tug. I’m ready to be a goer, right? But maybe don’t know where or with who. What next step should they take to consider that well? How do you figure out who you should reach?

[00:28:56] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Okay, so the first thing I will say since our listening audience is roughly a portion of our church, that’s really who listens to this, right, if that’s you and you’re listening to this right now, come talk to me. I would be happy to come in…

[00:29:09] Pastor Brian Martin: That’s hyper practical.

[00:29:09] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. Come in and sit down and talk with me. I have open office hours on Wednesday nights, 6:30 to 8:30. I will set you up a time. Come in and sit down. Let’s talk about it. I’d love to hear what your thinking is on it. So if you’re interested in missions and you’re inspired by the idea of taking the gospel to places where it hasn’t yet gone, let’s set up a time, shoot me an email and let’s sit down and talk. Uh, but what I would then do is help guide you to an organization like a pioneers or like Reach Global, which is the missions arm of our denomination. Uh, a really good source, some resources that can help guide you to the front edge. They know where it’s going to be most accessible. Where the gospel is going to be the most accessible to an unreached people group. So, it’s going to be really difficult to get in. But there are some places that are less difficult to get in than others, and they know where the back doors are and that sort of thing. So, uh, that would be the next step would be to talk to.

[00:30:16] Pastor Brian Martin: Well, there’s definitely people and organizations out there who have done the work, have done the research, have the information about where the opportunity is and they’re waiting for goers. So it’s really just about finding, you know, matchmaking. Yeah. In that sense.

[00:30:32] Pastor Kyle Bushre: I mean, somebody down at Reach Global might have a couple that wants to go to some unengaged people group and they just need a team. And then you step forward and say, I want to go to. And they say, let’s get you all in the room together. Let’s talk about how we might approach this. So, um, but they have all that information and they don’t share that information either, by the way, because it’s dangerous.  These are dangerous places. So, um, you’re going to need to be kind of on the inside in order to hear more information about these things. But yeah, that’s who you talk to.

[00:31:04] Pastor Brian Martin: Now, I’m not trying to put you on the spot here. It’s something we could just look into to. Do you know, are any of the unreached people groups in the US?

[00:31:14] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Well, if you, it depends on, so unengaged people groups are not. Uh. I don’t believe there are any. Um, and in fact, you often hear this thing about the 1040 window, but that’s not actually really accurate because that uses latitude lines. It really is, if you just take a, if you drop a pin in the Middle East and then draw a big circle, uh, sort of incorporates Northern Africa, and that’s really where the unengaged people groups are. Unreached people groups, though the different definition, I believe there are. In fact, here’s what’s really interesting. There are unengaged and unreached people groups that send people here to the United States so that they’re more accessible. And I wish I knew more about the efforts that good organizations are doing to reach those folks. I know some. But, that actually is another strategy that we use now because of globalization, people live everywhere. And so, um, I almost want to say some, I almost want to say some country names here, but I probably shouldn’t. Uh, there are people that are in place that are coming from places no one can go. Right. But we’re stepping there, as a Christian puts you in the crosshairs immediately. But they live here now. And that’s not true here. And so then the question becomes, okay, well, now how do I just engage this person? How do I just build a relationship with them? Because the truth is that person, that person who comes here, might actually come to know Jesus and then be the catalyst for the change back home. And, uh, and so there’s just fascinating ways of approaching this.

[00:32:53] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. I met a guy who was living in Kenya at the time, but he was from Benin, right? And he got trained up in Kenya and then went back home. And you know what I mean? Like, and was spreading the gospel like wildfire. Oh, yeah. Amazing.

[00:33:09] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Well, the new way of reaching people is to, most of the Americans are kind of in the back lines of the front line. So we go and we come alongside of, uh, in some places we have to, there are no believers. Those are the unengaged groups, right? So you got to, you know, there is a cross-cultural sharing. It has to be.  Nobody in the culture knows Jesus. So by definition, it would have to be cross-cultural. But there are near cultures, right? There are near cultures that have been reached that have Christians in them. And the barrier for entry for those near culture folks is much lower than it is for a Westerner. And so what happens sometimes is that the Westerners, the Christians from the United States. We go, we work with those near cultures to help train them to be missionaries to that unreached and unengaged people group. And in that way, it’s easier. They have an easier time. They know the culture better because it’s not the same people group, but the, maybe the language is similar. Certainly the food, the culture, the way families work is similar. The look is similar, the clothing, all that kind of stuff. So there are fewer barriers to entry for the near culture.

[00:34:23] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Well, I mean, we have sponsored missionaries in Canada. You know, for many years. And I did a visit up there. And I mean, there are neighborhoods with no churches and no Christians. Like there are parts of Canada that are like less than 1% Christian. You know, so we need people everywhere. We need people.

[00:34:46] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. People need to go from everywhere to everywhere. That’s the way we talk about it.

[00:34:49] Pastor Brian Martin: Yeah. Yeah. But, I think just for somebody considering it. Your reaching of unreached people doesn’t necessarily have to be the mud hut situation. Maybe it is. And we need people there too, but we need people in all kinds of scenarios. And maybe God has built you for a particular opportunity, and you’re just not thinking that those kinds of opportunities exist, but they exist everywhere.

[00:35:13] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Yeah. If you’re if you’re feeling tug at all, but you don’t know where to go. That’s okay. You’re in a good spot. In fact, you’re in a probably in a more malleable spot than most because now you can have other people suggest to you, hey, your efforts in this area or that country or among those people would be super helpful for the overall mission of this organization that’s, you know, trying to reach these folks. And you go, oh, I’m inspired now. I want to be part of that team. And I would say to you, go in team, go with a group of, you know, with your local church beside you and a team with you. That’s the way to reach folks. Don’t go it alone.

[00:35:56] Pastor Brian Martin: Yep. It’s a great thought. Great advice. And who knows what God’s doing in our church? But maybe there’s some people who are being called forward into this right now.

[00:36:04] Pastor Kyle Bushre: Um, I’m hoping.

[00:36:04] Pastor Brian Martin: That would be amazing. Well, wonderful. With that thought, we’ll wrap up for today. Thanks for joining us on the Calvary Callback. We hope this time was an encouragement to you. And whether you are a part of our Calvary family or if you’re listening from somewhere else in the world, we invite you to join us in our mission to pursue passion for Christ and compassion for people. For Kyle Bushre, I’m Brian Martin.  We’ll catch you next time on the Callback.